http://kemey.blogspot.com/

Thank You Z, an informative interview,

Issayas: This question is more or less political. Even though Eritrea is a different country, in any article or publication relating to Christianity, writing and etc. to Eritrea, I keep reading Ge'ez/Ethiopic Rite of Christianity, etc. Why do you think it's still put under Ethiopic Rite, (Ge'ez might be appropriate)?

Here we see how vigilant Eritreans are about anything that can even symbolically associate Eritrea with Ethiopia. They feel that if Ethiopic is used instead of Ge'ez, then it might somehow undermine and taint their separateness from Ethiopia. Higland Eritreans know in their hearts they have a lot in common with Ethiopia, they know they are more Ethiopian they would like to admit, but they are the most strident about asserting their separateness, because of the fear the future generation of Eritreans will come closer to Ethiopia unless the seprateness is asserted vigilantly.

Andrew: I would say that the genius of the new approach is not so much attributable to any plan or even to a European zeitgeist but rather to the Italians' recognition that the Eritrean Christians--though seen as deficient in some ways--were fully Christian and so could be trusted as agents not only of Christianity but also of the Italian nation being declared and defined at that moment.

Here we are being told Italians introduced Catholicism among Eritreans, not necessarily for the benefit of Eritreans, but to use Eritreans as agents of the Italian colonists. It simply means, Eritrean Catholicism was nothing but an Italian dagger pointed at the heart of Ethiopia.

Andrew: Effectively, in the political machinations going on at the time, I do not think it would be overstated that this gave the Italian state direct control of the Church in Eritrea making the evangelization efforts there subject neither to the French-dominated Lazarist Congregation of the Mission nor to the Vatican's own Propaganda Fidea (which would have governed everything as a mission territory). Thus, in this view, Eritrea emerged ECCLESIALLY as formerly under Abyssinian/Ethiopian missionary status to its own Apostolic Prefecture precisely because everything was to be under the direction of the Italian state. This will, I would contend, play an important role in the concomitant development of an Eritrean identity vis-à-vis Tigrayans, et al.

Here we are told, the Italians themselves placed Eritrea under the Ethiopian classification, since the Italians intended to conquer and rule the whole of Ethiopia. Eritrea was merely an Italian tool of conquest of Ethiopia, yet Eritreans still feel favored by the Italians, they even love and appreciate the Italians who merely wanted to use them as tools of conquest of the much larger colony they envisioned, on the other hand Eritrean feelings towards Ethiopia in general is quite negative. It is amazing how fellow Africans can be manipulated to hate each other so much for the benefit of a European colonizer. To me it looks like the Italians had more respect to the hostile Ethiopians than the submissive Eritreans.

Comformist, let´s go far back in time and analize this. First of all, you have to remember that Ethiopia is a new name for your nation. For just about a 100-150 years ago, your country was known as Abissinia. Now, Abissinia, as U well know, means land of the habesh. The habesh people, you find them both in today´s Eritrea and Ethiopia. If we talk about the history of the Abissinians in particular, then you find that most of that history begins in the area today called Eritrea. Since Eritrea is the gateway to Africa, every influence that comes from across the sea, is bound to affect the people living in that area than people living further. With this statement I want to say that Eritrea is the mother of Ethiopia and not vice versa. So, in our (eritreans) view, the appropriate name should be Ge´ez rite and not Ethiopic because christianity in our area is much older than Eritrea and Ethiopia. In other words, we eritreans don´t have this view just to become seperate from ethiopians just for separetness sake.

I have no argument against your assertion that the italians introduced catholicism for their benefit only. If it was primarily the "heart" of Ethiopia that dagger was pointing at, I´m not entirely sure.


your third point is a little bit mistaken. Let´s quote the guy again: "Thus, in this view, Eritrea emerged ECCLESIALLY as formerly under Abyssinian/Ethiopian missionary status to its own Apostolic Prefecture precisely because everything was to be under the direction of the Italian state. This will, I would contend, play an important role in the concomitant development of an Eritrean identity vis-à-vis Tigrayans, et al." I think it says from uder Abissinian/Ethiopian missionary status to its OWN Apostolic prefecture. Isn´t that the opposite of what U thought when U said: "Here we are told, the Italians themselves placed Eritrea under the Ethiopian classification, since the Italians intended to conquer and rule the whole of Ethiopia."
Who told you eritreans still fell favored by the italians? Why do U insult our intelligence like that? I bet you never sat with eritrean old-folks who lived under the italian times and you would hear horror stories of what the italians were doing to eritreans. We give them the benefit of the doubt for their ability to build and transform the country but we´ve never had any illusion why they were there and how they saw and traeated us. The feelings we´ve towards Ethiopia, you have to remember, is still fresh in our minds and the treatment was savage. I read some of your posts admitting to that fact as well.- Not only was it savage but it didn´t teach us anything new as the italian colonialism did. In fact, quite the contrary. Ethiopians were seen destroying the little the italians had built, even though they built for their selfish purpose. The reason we "hate" the ethiopian system (mind U, not the people) is not because we were brainwashed by the europeans but because Ethiopia treated us almost as Hitler treated the jews. Your last statement is not correct because the italians had conquered your country too and they saw the same "submissiveness" there as in Eritrea. Plus, it ain´t a big deal for a european country at the time, to conquer and submit an area in Africa with a small population of probably 500 000.

Comformist, let´s go far back in time and analize this. First of all, you have to remember that Ethiopia is a new name for your nation. For just about a 100-150 years ago, your country was known as Abissinia. Now, Abissinia, as U well know, means land of the habesh. The habesh people, you find them both in today´s Eritrea and Ethiopia. If we talk about the history of the Abissinians in particular, then you find that most of that history begins in the area today called Eritrea. Since Eritrea is the gateway to Africa, every influence that comes from across the sea, is bound to affect the people living in that area than people living further. With this statement I want to say that Eritrea is the mother of Ethiopia and not vice versa. So, in our (eritreans) view, the appropriate name should be Ge´ez rite and not Ethiopic because christianity in our area is much older than Eritrea and Ethiopia. In other words, we eritreans don´t have this view just to become seperate from ethiopians just for separetness sake.

But that is no way refutes what I claimed, my claim was Eritrea has more in common with the Habesha people of Ethiopia than differences. If Eritrea is the mother of Ethiopia, as you claimed, it only proves what I said. Okay let's asy Ethiopia is 150 years old as you said, that doesn't disprove what i claimed, my claim is strictly that we have so much in common with Eritreans, it is often difficult to distinguish us. But on the other hand, Eritreans are very tense about anything that might associate them with Ethiopia. As an example, the term "Ethiopic" is not an Amhara invention, in Ethiopia we always used the term "Ge'ez", Ethiopic was a term used by European scholars especially after James Bruce discovered the Book of Enoch in Ethiopia.

So if you use the term Ge'ez, you are still associated with us, because that's what we use, even if Ge'ez originated in Eritrea it makes no difference, we are still connected by the use of the common term. I am not talking about a political connection, but the cultural connection can not be broken.

your third point is a little bit mistaken. Let´s quote the guy again: "Thus, in this view, Eritrea emerged ECCLESIALLY as formerly under Abyssinian/Ethiopian missionary status to its own Apostolic Prefecture precisely because everything was to be under the direction of the Italian state. This will, I would contend, play an important role in the concomitant development of an Eritrean identity vis-à-vis Tigrayans, et al." I think it says from uder Abissinian/Ethiopian missionary status to its OWN Apostolic prefecture. Isn´t that the opposite of what U thought when U said: "Here we are told, the Italians themselves placed Eritrea under the Ethiopian classification, since the Italians intended to conquer and rule the whole of Ethiopia."

You are right here, I didn't read this carefully enough, it actually claims the opposite of what I thought he said.

Who told you eritreans still fell favored by the italians? Why do U insult our intelligence like that? I bet you never sat with eritrean old-folks who lived under the italian times and you would hear horror stories of what the italians were doing to eritreans.

I have often read articles by Eritreans intellectuals claiming Italian rule as their golden age.

For example in the following paper written by an Eritrean called Assefaw Bariagaber, you read the following typical claim about the era,


"While Italian rule may be remembered as the golden age for the economic well-being of many Eritreans, British rule represented the golden age for an open and an uninhibited political expression in Eritrea never seen before and after. This further cemented the Eritrean identity of the people and their distinction from Ethiopians. Indeed, the stark difference between the open and more or less democratic political system in Eritrea and the closed, autocratic system in Ethiopia was bound to make any unity, and indeed any federal arrangement, unsustainable."


http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/pdfid/4538821e4.pdf

The feelings we´ve towards Ethiopia, you have to remember, is still fresh in our minds and the treatment was savage.

I don't doubt that, great horrors were inflicted on so many innocent people in the name of the Amhara, which explains a lot about how Eritreans feel about Ethiopia over all. But this is a difficult thing to resolve, neither me or nor any one in my family ever served in the Derg or Woyane military, none of us have Eritrean blood in our hands, but the way life is, if one man in your tribe commits a crime the whole tribe is blamed. But there is no doubt terrible deeds were commited by successive Ethiopian regimes in Eritrea.

I read some of your posts admitting to that fact as well.- Not only was it savage but it didn´t teach us anything new as the italian colonialism did. In fact, quite the contrary. Ethiopians were seen destroying the little the italians had built, even though they built for their selfish purpose.

That's not entirely accurate, because under the Derg nothing was ever built in Ethiopia, because the Derg was a destroyer not a builder. During H/S there was limited progress, and as far as i know eritreans were never denied the opportunity to share in whatever little progress the country enjoyed. I have never been in Eritrea, or even Tigray for that matter, but I have been to all the other provinces of Ethiopia, even Ogaden. During H/S rule Eritreans were everywhere, in schools they were the top of the class, they owned a disproportionately high number of lucrative businesses, the Ethiopian Airlines was dominated by Eritreans, there were a disproportionatly high number of Eritrean officers in the military. Aman Andom was the best, but there were others too. But this was true even during Woyane rule, the proof is the enormous amounts of wealth and property that was stolen by Woyane during the expulsion.

So you claim Eritreans had gained nothing from Ethiopia, but if so where did they get all the Eritrean wealth that was stolen by Woyane?

The reason we "hate" the ethiopian system (mind U, not the people) is not because we were brainwashed by the europeans but because Ethiopia treated us almost as Hitler treated the jews.

Well, i hate the Ethiopian system too, it is bad, bad, bad. No nation should be run the way Ethiopia was being run the last few decades.

I don't deny Eritreans were mistreated by the Derg, but comparing that to Hitler is a gross exaggeration. The Derg did commit atrocities in areas of conflict, but Derg never systematically targeted Eritreans for extermination because of their ethnicity. There were hundreds of thousands of Eritreans living all over Ethiopia during the entire Derg rule, but no one ever was molested based on ethnicity, it is always either on suspicions of political involvement, or atrocities in the battle areas in Eritrea itself. There were atrocities in Eritrea, but not to the scale of what Hitler did to the Jews.

Your last statement is not correct because the italians had conquered your country too and they saw the same "submissiveness" there as in Eritrea. Plus, it ain´t a big deal for a european country at the time, to conquer and submit an area in Africa with a small population of probably 500 000.

That is true, the men with a fighting spirit were gassed, and strafed in the intitial battles. After that what was left were the minority resistance Patriots and the majority of submissive sheep. That's why Ethiopia needed to be liberated by the British, which wasn't much of a liberation, since today meles take his orders from London. But in all fairness, the only people Eritreans ever resisted were the Ethiopians, Eritreans never resisted the Turks or the Italians in any resolute way. That's why today we have so much trouble resolving this conflict between Ethiopia and Eritrea.

But that's not to say Eritrea is the cause of Ethiopia's sickness, Ethiopia is sick due to her own fault, so don't think I am blaming Eritrea for what ails Ethiopia.

"While Italian rule may be remembered as the golden age for the economic well-being of many Eritreans, British rule represented the golden age for an open and an uninhibited political expression in Eritrea never seen before and after. This further cemented the Eritrean identity of the people and their distinction from Ethiopians. Indeed, the stark difference between the open and more or less democratic political system in Eritrea and the closed, autocratic system in Ethiopia was bound to make any unity, and indeed any federal arrangement, unsustainable."

Comformist, this statement doesn´t say eritreans were economically well-off. It says "many" eritreans. I´m sure the suthor didn´t mean the whole population. Some eritreans had it good. No doubt. But racism, apartheid, torture in prisons etc. was the norm. The british, destroyed what the italians built and moved factories and machinary to >India and Nigeria while opening up the country politically and allowing the people to be educated. These two countries, hence, contributed:
1. The italians: technical knowhow
2. The british: Education and political plurality.
If U put these 2 contributions together, it gives eritreans some advantage over ethiopians.

"That's not entirely accurate, because under the Derg nothing was ever built in Ethiopia, because the Derg was a destroyer not a builder. During H/S there was limited progress, and as far as i know eritreans were never denied the opportunity to share in whatever little progress the country enjoyed. I have never been in Eritrea, or even Tigray for that matter, but I have been to all the other provinces of Ethiopia, even Ogaden. During H/S rule Eritreans were everywhere, in schools they were the top of the class, they owned a disproportionately high number of lucrative businesses, the Ethiopian Airlines was dominated by Eritreans, there were a disproportionatly high number of Eritrean officers in the military. Aman Andom was the best, but there were others too. But this was true even during Woyane rule, the proof is the enormous amounts of wealth and property that was stolen by Woyane during the expulsion.

So you claim Eritreans had gained nothing from Ethiopia, but if so where did they get all the Eritrean wealth that was stolen by Woyane?"

Remember conformist that H/S was smarter than menghistu. What he was trying with eritreans is called assimilation and he succeeded in a little scale but Menghistus´ brutality threw us into one anothers´ arms. Plus, I think U´re mixing oranges and apples somehow because what I was talking about is what happened in Eritrea proper and ethiopian policy there. Eritreans in Ethiopia, I believe, worked their azzez off to get what they got but true they were not hindered in their persue.

Maybe the similarity to Hitler was a bit exaggerated but still we felt discriminated in comparison to ethiopians. Let me give U one example, except the burning of villages and massacre of people. I and my generation NEVER saw our country at night. We had curfew all these years and after 10 to 11 at night, U don´t see a soul in the streets of Asmara except patrolling derg soldiers. I bet Addis Abeba was free day as night. If one imprisos the whole population like that, what do U call it?

Comformist, eritreans has resisted the turks and the italians and many were killed and imprisoned for it. But we were very few and not so enlightned so our struggle might seem weak compared to our struggle against Ethiopia but the unwillingness to never be ruled by foreigners was always there. Eritreans contributed to the success of the Adwa war and eritreans fought during the H/S regime as well. Not everything is black and white. That´s my point.

PEACE AND PROSPERITY TO THE ERITREAN AND ETHIOPIAN PEOPLE!

Dear Z,

You said, the British confiscated the Eritrean factories to move them abroad, it is a believable claim, because at the end of WWII the British confiscated a lot of German factories as war reprations. The Soviets and the Americans were more interested in weapons technology, so they took all the advanced weapons and the scientists of Nazi germany with them.

Indeed, the stark difference between the open and more or less democratic political system in Eritrea and the closed, autocratic system in Ethiopia was bound to make any unity, and indeed any federal arrangement, unsustainable."

It was a very serious mistake to try to mix two incompatible systems under one government, at least it might have worked if Janhoy had been less arrogant and didn't try to abrogate the very Federal agreement he signed to honor. Meles is doing the same thing today, he agreed to international arbitration on Badme, but he broke his solemn word like Janhoy did.

Remember conformist that H/S was smarter than menghistu. What he was trying with eritreans is called assimilation and he succeeded in a little scale but Menghistus´ brutality threw us into one anothers´ arms.

I can't say anything about what was going on inside eritrea, because I was never there, but we all know about Derg brutality, because no one in the whole of Ethiopia was safe from the Derg, but it goes without saying the cruelty in Eritrea was worse.

Eritreans in Ethiopia, I believe, worked their azzez off to get what they got but true they were not hindered in their persue.

That is true, I saw it all with my eyes, the Eritreans who prospered in Ethiopia were all workaholics. But the point is, they were never denied the right to prosper because of ethnicity. The Derg never oppressed Eritreans because of their ethnicity, it was because of the war of secession.

I and my generation NEVER saw our country at night. We had curfew all these years and after 10 to 11 at night, U don´t see a soul in the streets of Asmara except patrolling derg soldiers. I bet Addis Abeba was free day as night. If one imprisos the whole population like that, what do U call it?

I don't think you can use that as a special case, because most of Ethiopia too was under curfew throughout Derg rule. You wouldn't dare travel at night after the curfew in Addis Ababa, during Qey Shibir times the Abiot Tebaki would shoot you, after the Qey Shibir ended you would be arrested if you broke curfew. I know the curfew in Eritrea was more severe, but night time curfew was imposed all over Ethiopia.

Both the Eritreans and Tigrayans fighting the Derg thought the rest of Ethiopia was well off, because they didn't see what was going on in the rest of Ethiopia. Derg was brutal because of the wars in Eritrea and Tigray, if there had been a war of secession in Begemidir, Gojja or WOllo, you would see the same level of brutality that was seen in Eritrea and Tigray. Derg never had any special feeling towards Amharas, it's loyalty was to the USSR and the communism it was paid to build.

Eritreans contributed to the success of the Adwa war and eritreans fought during the H/S regime as well.

That is undeniable, only WOyane insults the memory of the Eritreans who fell fighting for Ethiopia.

But there is something about Eritrea that teaches us all an unforgettable lesson, it is not possible to subjugate a nation by brutality and murder, it simply fuels the fires of hatred and eveyone gets burned. Successive Ethiopian regimes have killed a lot Eritreans but that is worsening the problem, it simply is not bringing about Eritrean submission as they thought. I think as you said it, the only way to end the nightmare in our region is seek peace for all, including Somalia.