welkayt

Halafi qetafi....who cares about badme? You are also holding amhara land eko do you have the moral ground to talk about bandinet? You were collaborating with Italians while our fathers fighting them . You were a tour guide for Italians ...you honored Italian colonialism and fought along side Italians. By the grace of God and the rest of Ethiopians south if tigray we defeated facisim. It is history and we all know it. Now just like you care for badme, you need to return welkayt and other regions you annexed to the righteousness owner..which is the amhara people. Trust me they are watching you carefully and you will be taken care of when appropriate time comes. Do not get fooled when these folks are being quite. They are waiting the right time anyway. When that time comes, I wonder what would you do?

Wolkait, Tselemti, Adi Arqay and others were taken by Haileselassie in 1941 to 43 for punitive punishment of Tigrayans. All the land are named after Tigrigna, if there were Amhara lands and the first Amhara people to settle there they could have named them after their language not the language they hate and do not understand. This another fact to imply if you have any logic in your head. The best way is to ask what happened in 1941, Tigray revolt first Woyane against Hailesellassie because Tigray disapprove his majesty due to his abandoned Ethiopia during the war of Italy and Tigray felt betrayed and said no for Haileselassie. The British came to his aid and bombed Tigray and Amhara managed to loot our lands.

Tigray won the war but Tigray never took anyone’s land rather gave their rights to control every ethnic destination but as we know Ethiopian all ethnics never appreciate what Woyane has done for Ethiopia ethnics aside what Meles and Azeb has been doing for the last 12 years which is very shameful for all Tigrayans let alone Ethiopians.

My advice to Amhara is learn to be honest to yourself and compare what you did to the country for 100 years and what Tigray has done for the last 20 years. Lie will not take us anywhere except to divide us and push us further apart.

Gonder and Lasta Lalibela are built by the Tigrayans and they are part of Tigray historically let alone Wolkait Humora.

ESAT can talk they want but they will not make it legitimate their lie day in and day out.

About Badme, it is Tigray and will remain Tigray but there is big effort from Meles to give to his people Eritrea. It is up to Tigrayans to defend their belongings and Gash Setit, Tesene are part of Tigray. Red Sea Tigrayans defended more than any Eritrean ethnics and Ethiopia has the right to have an access to the sea via Afar and Afar should be part of Ethiopia. Again it is up you and I what kind of Ethiopia to leave for the next generation of Ethiopians.

You are a typical Eritrean, you become angry and insulting whenever you are shown your weakness. Whether you admit it or not Meles loves Eritrea, he wants Eritrea to be independent and even stronger than Ethiopia. If Meles had his way there wouldn't have been a Badme war, he just had no choice but to fight it otherwise he was about to be overthrown, then Eritrea would have faced more dangerous foes. Meles never wanted to do any harm to Eritrea. After the war he publicly declared Assab is Eritrean territory, he was the one who proposed the Algiers agreement, he was the one who proposed the EEBC, there is nothing Meles didn't do to give Eritrea the advantage. A few years back Meles and Sebhat Nega decided to return Eritrean properties that were looted during the war, but Isayas will not return one penny of Ethiopian property that was looted.

Even today Meles is gathering the Eritrean opposition to fight and overthrow the Isayas regime and install a new regime which would be a puppet of Meles so that he can run Eritrea from behind the scenes. That's not hate for Eritrea, it shows his concern for the future of independent Eritrea. That's how I see the situation.

You tell me Eritrea made a strategic withdrawal from Badme, that was in february 1999, why haven't they taken it back if they weren't pushed out by force?

That is the crux of the matter, right? "Melles never wanted to do any harm.''

Listen my friend, I don't have to mention for the umpteenth times that it was just few weeks ago Melles was running around like crazy to have Eritrea sanctioned. Maybe old age is creeping on you .....but I wouldn't call that 'love'.

The flip side of this kind of argument (Melles is good for Eritrea) isn't helpful to your own desire seeing woyane gone. People like Halafi perpetuates this kind of myth because they recognize that it would massage your wounded ego. So you're happy to repeat intentionally what they are feeding you- if it were not for Melles, we would have been in Asmara by now. Other than that, in practical terms, the people who portray Seye as a nationlist want to see no change in the status quo, just a different Tigrian face.

Besides, if you can convince Eritreans that they should not look over their shoulder as long as Melles is in power, well.....then they don't have any beef with him, other than to leave them alone. And do you know what the implications are for you, my friend? Hint: Melles functions in the view that the only threat to his power is from Shaebia.

Halafi qetafi I feel so bad for you...you cannot move to the North or south...you will be defeated....you have no where to hide.

You are a sick woyane to dream about gondar and lalibela. Chegaram ye Chegeram zer.

Quindibu,

Comformist is right and read what the Eritreans themselves have been saying: Below is copied from Asmarino.com an Eritrean website.

The enemy of Ethiopia is Meles Zenawi more than anyone in East Africa.

Every Ethiopian should read what Eritreans saying to Meles Zenawi now.

Eritrea-Ethiopia: The Algiers Peace Agreement and its Aftermath*

Semere1 2011-07-24 16:18
#13 Hagherawi

War does not end political problems between neighbors. It's naive to think Eritreans will live under occupation because Iseyas made them to "hate themselves and their country".

1. Didn't war end the political problems of Nazi Germany and the rest of Europe? Isn't Isaias the Hitler of the Horn? War will surely be messy and harrowing, but it can solve the Isaias problem.

2. Eritreans are very capable of living under occupation as they proved in the past. They lived under Turkish, Italian and British occupation. It is the Ethiopians who can't live under foreign occupation.

3. The collapse of Eritrean nationalism wasn't caused by Isaias alone, the extreme and unreasonable nationalism of the past has a lot to do with it


+5 #17 Semere1 2011-07-24 16:14
#10 Sele Haqi

The explosion of Eritreans en masse from Ethiopia was a wrong decision that was taken by Ethiopian gov't.

From the humanitarian point of view, mass expulsion is wrong. But from the military point of view it has a lot of precedent. Remember the internment of Japanese Americans during WWII. When war starts the worst side of human nature emerges, that's why a totally unnecessary war like Badme shouldn't have been started. When you have a mentally ill leader, the whole nation suffers the consequences of his illness.


+3 #16 Semere1 2011-07-24 16:13
#8 Gebrewahid 2011-07-24 05:44

Meles is on his way out. More and more his government's official business is being carried out by Hailemariam Desalegn (his deputy) As you said, if Isayas don't talk to him now, Eritrea will be toast after the next Ethiopian Election..

Gebrewahid, you made a good point. Meles is the key to the future of Eritrea, as long as he stays Eritrean independence is guarded, but if he goes then the free ride is over for Eritrea.

Here also lies the danger, Meles is exhausted from the heavy responsibility, he wants out. So he will be tempted to solve the Isaias problem to safe-guard Eritrean independence, that's why he might start the war to eliminate the Isaias regime. If Meles fails to solve the Isaias problem, Ethiopia will likely get a nationalist leader who will surely liberate Assab for the benefit of Ethiopia. He might even liberate and assimilate the rest of Eritrea.

Amiche 2011-07-24 08:26
Paulos Tesfagiorgis seems well informed and has a realistic approach to the whole issue...The root cause of Eritrea's problems is It's exaggerated sense of self importance and it's perception of others...here is an example of why smart Eritrea will always be outsmarted unless it realises it's true worth. Self reliant Eritrea a few years in to the so called independence drew an economic plan that would 90% rely on Ethiopia and invited the then Ethiopian official Gebru Asrat to outline it's plan. I for once thought Gedlhi's one and only vision of banking on Ethiopian naivety is about to be materialised..The irony was, Knowing that Meles Zenawi is more Eritrean than many Eritreans, why we invited Gebru Asrat is mind boggling....perhaps we are not as clever as we think.

Gebrewahid 2011-07-24 05:44
".. Meles doesn't want that kind of war, because his whole career was about Eritrea. ...Meles is a far greater Eritrean patriot than Isaias ever was..." #6 Semere1

Semere,

Eritrea is also Meles' Achilles hill. The only reason why Meles is not popular among Ethiopians is because of Eritrea. If it weren't for Eritrean issue, he would have enjoyed a vast support of all corners of Ethiopia. He really sacrificed his political capital for Eritrea, Yet, what did Isayas and PFDJ do? They spit on his face. Regrettably, now as it appears, Meles is on his way out. More and more his government's official business is being carried out by Hailemariam Desalegn (his deputy) As you said, if Isayas don't talk to him now, Eritrea will be toast after the next Ethiopian Election..

Semere1 2011-07-24 02:39
#1 Tsahaye

Ethiopian had opted to war rather than dialogue during the border war, and now demarcation is a prerequisite to dialogue and to lasting peace.

You don't get it, Meles is begging to talk to Isaias because he wants to save Eritrea. Eritrea can not survive another devastating war, and Meles doesn't want that kind of war, because his whole career was about Eritrea. Strictly speaking the people of Tigray had no real reason to fight against their own country, if you understand that you will know Meles is a far greater Eritrean patriot than Isaias ever was. So don't push this issue, talk to him and resolve this amicably, otherwise war could mean the end of independent Eritrea.

Here we go again with Halafi's confused logic.

Arba Minch is Amharic so it should be in Amhara region. Adi Arkay with 97.63% Amhara population should of course be in Tigray. What a wonderful logic. The border of the Tigray region never crossed the Tekeze rever, never. What the woyanes did in wolkayit and Humera was a clear ethnic cleansing with many witnesses, period and it should be reversed.

Why are woyanes not just satisfied with Tigray alone? They want to take territory from Eritrea, Afar, Amhara etc. Why? No Amhara or Eritrean or any non-Tigrean want to be incorporated in Tigray. Why not let everybody be who they are? Whether Halafi likes it or not this madness will have an end and he will wake up from his slumber!

Here we go again with Halafi's confused logic.

Arba Minch is Amharic so it should be in Amhara region. Adi Arkay with 97.63% Amhara population should of course be in Tigray. What a wonderful logic. The border of the Tigray region never crossed the Tekeze rever, never. What the woyanes did in wolkayit and Humera was a clear ethnic cleansing with many witnesses, period and it should be reversed.

Why are woyanes not just satisfied with Tigray alone? They want to take territory from Eritrea, Afar, Amhara etc. Why? No Amhara or Eritrean or any non-Tigrean want to be incorporated in Tigray. Why not let everybody be who they are? Whether Halafi likes it or not this madness will have an end and he will wake up from his slumber!

Do you remember what Moshe Dayan an Israel foreign minister said???

My blind eye is watching the Arabs and my normal eye is watching the Soviet Union. Likewise, Tigrayan blind eye is watching the Amhara and the normal eye is watch Shaebia.

That is the crux of the matter, right? "Melles never wanted to do any harm.''

Listen my friend, I don't have to mention for the umpteenth times that it was just few weeks ago Melles was running around like crazy to have Eritrea sanctioned. Maybe old age is creeping on you .....but I wouldn't call that 'love'.

He wasn't doing that to undermine Eritrean independence, he was doing it to overthrow Shabia and install an Eritrean government that is friendly to Tigray. He didn't do it because he hates the idea of Eritrea but because he hates Shabia. You may believe Shabia is Eritrea, but neither Meles nor the Eritrean opposition that is organizing in Ethiopia believes that.

The flip side of this kind of argument (Melles is good for Eritrea) isn't helpful to your own desire seeing woyane gone.

I disagree, if the people of Tigray were to recognize Meles is the best friend of Eritrea they will attempt to eliminate him. But it is clear Meles is Woyane, without him Woyane can'[t stand otherwise they wouldn't have beeged him to stay when he wanted to resign before the 2010 elections.

So you're happy to repeat intentionally what they are feeding you- if it were not for Melles, we would have been in Asmara by now.

I don't want to be in Asmara, I don't want to see Eritreans suffer, God knows they suffered too much already. But I believe Eritreans have caused all this evil when they created Woyane, now the snake they created has turned on them, it is only Meles who is trying to protect them from this Woyane snake. Do you think war between Tigray and Eritrea could have been avoided between 2000 and now if Seye Abrha and Gebru Asrat were in control of Woyane? It was Meles and sebhat Nga who protected Eritrea until know to give her the breathing time to rebuild her military strength.

Besides, if you can convince Eritreans that they should not look over their shoulder as long as Melles is in power, well.....then they don't have any beef with him, other than to leave them alone. And do you know what the implications are for you, my friend? Hint: Melles functions in the view that the only threat to his power is from Shaebia.

Meles would be no threat to Eritreans if it wasn't for Badme, in fact Shabia is not really the one that shall destroy Woyane, it is Badme. Badme is dividung and weakening Tigray, and a divided and weakened Tigray is to the advantage of Shabia. So eventually Shabia will destroy Woyane, but only because of the deep divisions that are emerging in Tigray. When people are angry their judgement is poor, thankfully the Tigrayans are getting angrier and angrier.

U´ve to be happy that I´m "a typical eritrean" because I´m the kind, that shows what I feel openly and freely and not smile and then stab you in the back. Let me tell U the reason I got angry. I discuss with a lot of people in this forum, as U do, but I made the mistake in assessing U as a sound and logical person one can discuss with, with the truth as a guiding light. But when U can´t even aknowledge simple facts as they are, then I get angry and disappointed, mainly with myself and my wrong assessment.

That said, I want to clarify for U the reasons U listed as to why Meles seems "good for Eritrea". Meles is undoubtedly the smartest in the bunch leading your country today. Whatever Meles decides vis-a-vis Eritrea is because he KNOWS the nature of eritreans in general and shaebia in particular. That knowledge helps him make decisions that prolong his stay in power whilst most of the others in his "govt." would be led by emotion and "zeraf zeraf", to their detriment. For me, Meles is even more dangerous than the others because his decisions are not emotional, but well calculated. The "head on" attitute the others in that junta seem to have, especially towards Eritrea, he knows, will lead nowhere. If he´s to prolong his rule, which until today seems to have served him right (1.2 billion dollars in the bank), why should he antagonize the only power in the HoA capable of dislodging him from the throne of Ethiopia? But that atttude, U call, love for Eritrea.

He doesn´t have to "declare Assab, eritrean" because it´s not for him to declare. U cannot diminish our struggle and sacrifice, to something to be "blessed" or given the "stamp of approval" from a coward ethiopian leader, to have any value.

He went after the algiers agreement, because he knew shaebias´ counterattack will render the war to be played out in Tgray territory, if he opted to continue. I don´t know what experience U have in military matters but I´m telling U, shaebia would´ve whipped his butt, royally, and that would´ve triggered the oppressed people of Ethiopia, take advantage of the situation. That´s why I say, he calculated smartly there.

Do U know aything about "the rule of law"? Whatever Meles did, whether it be returning "looted property" or whatever, is because it´s stipulated in the agreement signed. Mind U, Eritrea willingly accepted the findings "Eritrea started the war" decision because it wants to abide by agreements and not because the findings are correct. But U seem to forget there´re third parties involved in the agreement and U want to paint the whole situation as if the TPLF have a monopoly on decisions. What U said about "Isaias not returning looted property", I don´t know what U´re blabbering about because the war was from the beginning till the end, played on the Eritrean side of the border.

Then again U claim, Meles´ attempt at overthrowing the Eri-govt. as a kind of favour for as eritreans when U damn well know how much we love our president. Are U that ignorant or U want to, indirectly, insult the ertrean people? I hope it´s the first alternative.

Why didn´t U talk about the egri mekhel war (or Tsorona war) which happened after the strategic withdrawal from Badme? Is it because there´s no logical explanation for an army, presumed destroyed, to miraculously come back and score such a huge victory?

We don´t need to dislodge the weyane from Badme because they´re, already dislodged by the rule of law (which they should abide by) and not because Eritrea lacks military might to do so.

You don't get it, Meles is begging to talk to Isaias because he wants to save Eritrea. Eritrea can not survive another devastating war, and Meles doesn't want that kind of war, because his whole career was about Eritrea. Strictly speaking the people of Tigray had no real reason to fight against their own country, if you understand that you will know Meles is a far greater Eritrean patriot than Isaias ever was. So don't push this issue, talk to him and resolve this amicably, otherwise war could mean the end of independent Eritrea.

If Isayas agrees to sit and talk with Meles, it will be a disaster for Ethiopia. Because they will make a bargain on Badme, then normalization will follow and without Shabia being a threat to Woyane, the Meles regime will be entrenched forever. The two men talking is not in the best interests of Ethiopia.

Here we go again with Halafi's confused logic.

Arba Minch is Amharic so it should be in Amhara region. Adi Arkay with 97.63% Amhara population should of course be in Tigray. What a wonderful logic. The border of the Tigray region never crossed the Tekeze rever, never. What the woyanes did in wolkayit and Humera was a clear ethnic cleansing with many witnesses, period and it should be reversed.

Why are woyanes not just satisfied with Tigray alone? They want to take territory from Eritrea, Afar, Amhara etc. Why? No Amhara or Eritrean or any non-Tigrean want to be incorporated in Tigray. Why not let everybody be who they are? Whether Halafi likes it or not this madness will have an end and he will wake up from his slumber!

Do you remember what Moshe Dayan an Israel foreign minister said???[/size]

[size=150]My blind eye is watching the Arabs and my normal eye is watching the Soviet Union. Likewise, Tigrayan blind eye is watching the Amhara and the normal eye is watch Shaebia.

Blind or not, you have been told by your tribal junta leaders, to keep both your eyes on the aid bag that contains grain. That's your source of unity and entry to globalization (your role being to receive global aid, the way your tribal leaders put it to you in Tigray recently)!