Ethiopian News and Opinion Forum


Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby Conformist » 05 Jan 2012, 14:58


Zmeselo wrote:That said, I want to clarify for U the reasons U listed as to why Meles seems "good for Eritrea". Meles is undoubtedly the smartest in the bunch leading your country today. Whatever Meles decides vis-a-vis Eritrea is because he KNOWS the nature of eritreans in general and shaebia in particular. That knowledge helps him make decisions that prolong his stay in power whilst most of the others in his "govt." would be led by emotion and "zeraf zeraf", to their detriment. For me, Meles is even more dangerous than the others because his decisions are not emotional, but well calculated. The "head on" attitute the others in that junta seem to have, especially towards Eritrea, he knows, will lead nowhere. If he´s to prolong his rule, which until today seems to have served him right (1.2 billion dollars in the bank), why should he antagonize the only power in the HoA capable of dislodging him from the throne of Ethiopia? But that atttude, U call, love for Eritrea.


I don't think it is implausible to think Meles loves Eritrea, after all his mother was an Eritrean, his father was reviled as a traitor by the people of Tigray, the only place Meles found any respect and acceptance was in Eritrea. So why shouldn't he love Eritrea?

Meles has shown many signs over the last 20 years his committment to the success of Eritrea and her independence. I admit, Meles hates Isayas he hates Shabia, but he doesn't hate the idea of a successful and independent Eritrea. I think he is working with Eritrean opposition because of his belief that Isayas is a threat to Eritrea's future.

He doesn´t have to "declare Assab, eritrean" because it´s not for him to declare. U cannot diminish our struggle and sacrifice, to something to be "blessed" or given the "stamp of approval" from a coward ethiopian leader, to have any value.


If Meles hadn't been the leader of Ethiopia surely Ethiopia would have demanded to recover Assab by force. I know you will say "we will wipe out your army it tries to capture Assab." But you are forgetting one fact, Meles pervented a war on Assab altogether by publicly declaring Assab is Eritrean. But because you hate him you can't even see the favor he did to Eritrea at great risk to Woayne and to the people of Tigray.

He went after the algiers agreement, because he knew shaebias´ counterattack will render the war to be played out in Tgray territory, if he opted to continue. I don´t know what experience U have in military matters but I´m telling U, shaebia would´ve whipped his butt, royally, and that would´ve triggered the oppressed people of Ethiopia, take advantage of the situation. That´s why I say, he calculated smartly there.


I don't agree, in 2000 Shabia was in no position to counter attack, its military strength was so damaged. Now it is different, thanks to the 11 years of peace Shabia has rebuilt its strength and it now has young freshly trained troops who are eager to avenge the blood of their brothers and sisters. The Agamess though Amhara was their enemy, but their worst enemy turned out to be the leader of Woyane Tigray.

Do U know aything about "the rule of law"? Whatever Meles did, whether it be returning "looted property" or whatever, is because it´s stipulated in the agreement signed. Mind U, Eritrea willingly accepted the findings "Eritrea started the war" decision because it wants to abide by agreements and not because the findings are correct. But U seem to forget there´re third parties involved in the agreement and U want to paint the whole situation as if the TPLF have a monopoly on decisions. What U said about "Isaias not returning looted property", I don´t know what U´re blabbering about because the war was from the beginning till the end, played on the Eritrean side of the border.


Meles and Sebhat didn't return looted Eritrean property, not because the white man told them to, but because they wanted to. Sebhat nega said in a radio inteview "it's about time", when Meles declared Eritrean property will be restored.

You forgot, when the war started Shabia kept all the Ethiopian goods that were in Assab and Masawa. Many Ethiopians living in Eritrea were dispossessed of what they owned and were expelled. Granted the looted Eritrean property was much greater, but still the incident shows Meles and Sebhat have no respect for Ethiopians. Having said that, don't misunderstand me, I have no desire to see Eritreans lose what they worked for. If I had the power i would open the borders and would welcome the Eritrean people who want to live in Ethiopia. So i have no fight with the Eritrean people, my fight is with Meles whose abnormal behavior is not helping anyone, not even the suffering people of Eritrea. Politically what Meles is doing might seem good for Eritrea, but the Eritrean people are suffering because of this Badme issue.

Then again U claim, Meles´ attempt at overthrowing the Eri-govt. as a kind of favour for as eritreans when U damn well know how much we love our president. Are U that ignorant or U want to, indirectly, insult the ertrean people? I hope it´s the first alternative.


Not every eritrean loves ISayas, there are those who hate him, they are now training and organizing in Tigray to wage war against Shabia.

Why didn´t U talk about the egri mekhel war (or Tsorona war) which happened after the strategic withdrawal from Badme? Is it because there´s no logical explanation for an army, presumed destroyed, to miraculously come back and score such a huge victory?


I didn't say the eritrean army was completely destroyed in the Badme war, but it was badly damaged. I even knew an Eritrean man who fought in the war and he told me a great deal about the carnage both sides suffered in feb 1999. It is true the Egri Makel war was a deafet for Woyane, but only barely, the Woyane almost broke the trenches, Eritreans barely won that one. But after that it was deafet after defeat for Eris. But that's old history, we should focus on the fututre, now Eritrea is not weak anymore, and Woyane can not dare to ignite war without risking the very existence of Tigray. I think that all that matters now.

Zmeselo, i want you to understand my thinking, i have no desire to see Eritrea defeated, because I can gain nothing from it, nor do I think Eritrea will be defeated. But you people need to understand, any false move could lead to a conflagration that could destroy the entire HoA. This time war is a dangerous undertaking, no one can predict where it will lead.



Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby ZEMEN » 05 Jan 2012, 15:13


confermist, I wish I had time to show point by point how your take is very wrong and miss leading.
you said
But you are forgetting one fact, Meles pervented a war on Assab altogether by publicly declaring Assab is Eritrean. But because you hate him you can't even see the favor he did to Eritrea at great risk to Woayne and to the people of Tigray.

you said

Then why was it then the bloodiest battle was Assab-front if Assab was declared Eritrean? You see you failing to distinguish between what is the truth and what was said for political and local consumption. Now why the war in Assab front? please answer me.



Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby quindibu » 05 Jan 2012, 16:24


Conformist,

I'm at loss to understand your line of thinking. Simply, I fail to grasp how trying to 'convince' me Melles' goodness to Eritrea would help you in seeing free-woyane Ethiopia while claiming at the same time, if Shabia mends with woyane 'it'll be a disaster for Ethiopia'?

Recently, Simon Bereket has been heard claiming that Ethiopian oppositions have nothing else to offer other than their obsession of Assab and Eritrea or something to that effect. I'm not validating his comments, but you're playing right into what he wants you in. My friend, the way forward is to reconcile yourself with the sovereignty of Eritrea. Yep, including Assab. And I hope you recognize that the same logic of force is why we're in the situation we're in now.

Here is my point: Focus on the big picture. Let's define ourselves with something else instead of acting tough and learn from the past mistakes. Unless we pause and look inside ourselves, we won't solve our woes by externalizing them. We'll just postpone them.



Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby Conformist » 05 Jan 2012, 20:09


ZEMEN wrote:Then why was it then the bloodiest battle was Assab-front if Assab was declared Eritrean? You see you failing to distinguish between what is the truth and what was said for political and local consumption. Now why the war in Assab front? please answer me.


That in no way proves Woyane was trying to capture Assab, in fact it proves the opposite. The reason Woyane was attacking the Assab front so heavily was to draw the troops in the northwest to Assab, so that the entire Mereb front is weakened to break through. If Shabia had emptied all its troops from the Assab front and had placed them along the Badme, Zalambessa and Tesene front then it would have been much more difficult for Woyane to breakthrough. It does make sense for Woyane to heavily attack Assab since it had no intention of taking it. The attack along the Assab front was merely a diversionary attack, the real goal was to penetrate all along the northwestern front. But the Eritreans will never admit this for reasons of pride.



Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby Conformist » 05 Jan 2012, 20:36


quindibu wrote:I'm at loss to understand your line of thinking. Simply, I fail to grasp how trying to 'convince' me Melles' goodness to Eritrea would help you in seeing free-woyane Ethiopia while claiming at the same time, if Shabia mends with woyane 'it'll be a disaster for Ethiopia'?


Meles is has no desire to harm Eritrea and the Eritrean people, but he was forced to choose the lesser of two evils. If he didn't stay in power then the hardliners would take over Woyane and would have done much greater harm to Eritrea. Meles really was left with no choice, either he had to choose the lesser evil of harming his beloved Eritrea himself, or Eritrea would have to suffer much greater harm in the hands of the Tigres who hate her. Eritreans are adamnt about denying this, but when asked what would have happened if Meles had refused to wage war on Eritrea they will not answer it. But to me you sound like you are an Eritrean, so i will ask you this, what would have happened if Meles had refused to wage war against Eritrea in 1999? Could you please answer that.

Shabia will not reconcile with Woyane, but if it were to find a way to reconcile I think it will be bad for Ethiopia because Woyane will be entrenched, now only Shabia has the power to uproot Woyane, that's what I am trying to say. Also Meles' pro-Eritreanism is good for Ethiopia, because it will help his overthrow. So Meles' goodness to Eritrea is bad for Woyane's longevity, but if Isayas were to be soft with Woyane then we would have a disaster in our hands. Isayas' uncompromising position towards Woyane is very good for Ethiopia.

I don't like Meles, I find him disgusting in many way, but even he has some qualities to be admired. He doesn't want to make the people of Eritrea suffer more than they already have, at one time way back in the early days of the war when a brainless Ethiopian reporter asked him about why Eritreans were not expelled from Ethiopia, he called the reporter tsere-Hizb. That is something to be admired, I simply don't believe the Eritreans should have been expelled from Ethiopia, they were a good asset. If there were a few bad apples only those should have been punished.

Recently, Simon Bereket has been heard claiming that Ethiopian oppositions have nothing else to offer other than their obsession of Assab and Eritrea or something to that effect. I'm not validating his comments, but you're playing right into what he wants you in. My friend, the way forward is to reconcile yourself with the sovereignty of Eritrea. Yep, including Assab. And I hope you recognize that the same logic of force is why we're in the situation we're in now.


I have no desire to have Eritrean blood in my hands, enough Eritrean blood has been spilled due to the stupidity of previous Ethiopian leaders. I think in the future we need to be kind to Eritreans to heal the deep wounds they suffered in the hands of the criminal regimes such as the Derg and Woyane. Eritreans can have the flag and the national anthem they love. They can even hold on to Assab if it makes them feel better. if we can be reasonable to each other then all we need is to open the borders end the hostility and have free movement of the people. If that can be achieved the politics is not so important, what is killing us all is the hatred and bloodletting.

God has shown us clearly what we are doing to the common people of Eritrea is bad, because the worst of the exile and humiliation and all tragedies on us started after we escalated the abuse of the Eritrean people in the 1970's.



Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby Halafi Mengedi » 05 Jan 2012, 20:45


Conformist,

For your information, the Ethiopian forces were at the brink of taking over Assab and according General Mesfin Hagos the defence minister of Eritrea during the border war published an article on asmarino.com stated that Issayas Afewerqi ordered the entire military forces from the Afar region of Assab and vicinities to abandoned and come to defend Asmara. If Meles had to wait a few days the Ethiopian forces were about to take over Assab and Asmara but I do not know whether Meles had that information but Meles immediately halted the Ethiopian forces from further advancing to Asmara or Assab. One of the Ethiopian General by the name of General Berhe Shaebia in charge of Ethiopian forces advancing deep inside Eritrea was very angry when Meles ordered them to stop and march towards Humora. When Meles heard about Berhe Shaebia, he called him to Addis Ababa and killed him with his wife at night.

Meles refused to listen warning about Eritrea to invade Ethiopia territories way before hand.

Meles refused to buy military equipments Ethiopia to defend itself thanks to Seye we got what the military needed at the time.

Meles refused to go to war and recapture our lands, thanks the other Woyane refused to obey him.



Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby Conformist » 06 Jan 2012, 00:25


Halafi Mengedi wrote:Conformist,

For your information, the Ethiopian forces were at the brink of taking over Assab and according General Mesfin Hagos the defence minister of Eritrea during the border war published an article on asmarino.com stated that Issayas Afewerqi ordered the entire military forces from the Afar region of Assab and vicinities to abandoned and come to defend Asmara. If Meles had to wait a few days the Ethiopian forces were about to take over Assab and Asmara but I do not know whether Meles had that information but Meles immediately halted the Ethiopian forces from further advancing to Asmara or Assab. One of the Ethiopian General by the name of General Berhe Shaebia in charge of Ethiopian forces advancing deep inside Eritrea was very angry when Meles ordered them to stop and march towards Humora. When Meles heard about Berhe Shaebia, he called him to Addis Ababa and killed him with his wife at night.

Meles refused to listen warning about Eritrea to invade Ethiopia territories way before hand.

Meles refused to buy military equipments Ethiopia to defend itself thanks to Seye we got what the military needed at the time.

Meles refused to go to war and recapture our lands, thanks the other Woyane refused to obey him.



It is psychologically very difficult for Eritreans to admit that all was lost if it wasn't for Meles who saved them. If you tell them the Ethiopian army couldn't have been stopped by Eritrean forces if Meles hadn't recalled them, they will get angry and defensive.



Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby out for lunch » 06 Jan 2012, 01:03


Conformist,

I have to admit that Meles perhaps loves Eritrea more than you do though he was campaigning to starve Eritrean people the last time around. Let us face it you have a lot of love for Assab but not Eritrea. Your trouble is you have bigger enemy at your doorstep (as a matter of fact, in Minilik Palace) who had shattered your dreams of subjugating all Ethiopians including Eritrean under your own rule. To you, PIA and Meles are idiots who should eliminate each other so that your throne could be returned intact. :D Listen my friend, let me take you back to second world war. When the Nazis threatened to take over England, they invited the British Ambassader to Switzerland at the time. They gave him an ultimatum. Guess what his answer was... You can walk to White Hall with your fancy and strong army, we will still fight you in the trenchs and beaches even in the heart land. Does that answer you why Meles had to withdraw. The weyanes army can't even deal the with the Somali rag tag rebels back in 2007 much less the ferocious Eritrean Army that accompanied Meles to his throne. Meles is a snake but not an idiot. You have to deal with him yourself brother. If he returns Badme, Personally, I have no more bone to pick with him. Interfering in each other's affairs is pure stupidity.


Peace
Last edited by out for lunch on 06 Jan 2012, 01:10, edited 2 times in total.



Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby Halafi Mengedi » 06 Jan 2012, 01:05


Conformist,

Imagine the last war was when the Eritreans were at the highest peak of nationalism, in love with Shaebia and had hate towards Ethiopia but today they know Shaebia is the real enemy to their people, no love for Shaebia, Ethiopia is the one sending them to school and gave them freedom. If there is a war right now no one will fight for Issayas and Shaebia knowing that they will run to Ethiopia and come back to their home within a week with out Issayas and Shaebia anymore in their lands. This is the biggest tragedy for lost opportunity to resolve once for all but Ethiopia is always unfortunate country never produce good leader.



Re: Shire People, no more Deqi Shire Qumta Sire If You sale Badme !!!

Postby sensa-asab » 06 Jan 2012, 01:57


Wake up and don't get excited by the few sellouts whom you host,Eritreans are Eritreans and always put Eritrea first,so don't think even for a second they will turn their back on shabia and collaborate with you against their country.you are underestimating Eritreans Eritreanism,it will never change and always will be with PIA when it involves you.

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